leak or no leak?

[ANDYinSanDiego]

Hello –

I’ll try to keep this short, but I’m a novice koi pond enthusiast so I’ll do my best. I just recently bought a house that came with a koi pond; approximately 10 X 10 and around 2000 gallons (estimated). The woman who owned the house before ran the koi pond 24/7, and didn’t seem to notice her exorbitantly high water bills each month.

Upon moving in, I got lucky by accident when I broke the float valve off while trying to adjust it. Since I was having to add water manually, I saw that I needed to fill the pond daily in order to prevent the pump from sucking air. A koi pond service came and identified the problem – the waterfall area was built up a little too high (too many rocks), thus allowing water to spill out over the edge of the waterfall beyond the liner – this led to basically a constant trickle of water escaping the pond.

I investigated further, and saw that there was evidence of consistent moisture in the land areas below the koi pond….I found a lot of plant life as well as mold (not near the house, but below the house as the house is located on a very small hill).

So….I am now filling the koi pond up only about once a week….does this sound right for evaporative loss? I am worried that there still might be a leak, primarily because the koi pond service told me there might be. But after fixing the waterfall problem, no water appears to be leaking any more….is there any good way to truly diagnose a leak? I was thinking of buying a soil moisture meter to monitor the soil over time – would this work, and if so does anyone know of a good brand of moisture meter to get?

If there is a leak I want to get it fixed, but the problem is the koi pond service is recommending a complete restructuring of the pond as a proactive measure to ensure there are no leaks – the price is over $600. I’m just not sure if this is completely necessary.

So, in conclusion, I guess my main questions are:
-is filling a koi pond of my size once a week (at the most) sound about right for evaporative loss?
-how concerned should I be about the moisture problem in the soil? Can I just plant some grass or plants there to use up the moisture, or is this just masking a potential problem?
-does a complete restructuring of the koi pond make intuitive sense? I can’t really see any problems in the structure, except for maybe the fact that a rock beneath the waterfall is facing toward the waterfall instead of toward the pond, forcing the water to go the other way – it does, however, still find its way eventually into the pond.
-does soil moisture monitoring work; has anyone here tried it? If so, any recommendations on brands would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much in advance for any help. I am new to this, but I already love doing it! I just want to make sure I have a healthy pond for years to come.

[Terri]

Hi AndyinSD :-) Thanks for joining us here at KR.

Glad you found the leak in the waterfall and that was fixed. What amount of water do you estimate you are losing per week? 1inch, 2inches, 6inches? What is the average temp in SD right now? Is the area you suspect at the lower area near the pond the lowest point of your yard? How much raifall has your area had in the past several weeks/months? Have you checked the pond edging in that area for seepage? It's possible over time the edging has settled and the liner sunk somewhat(typically at a fold) allowing a slow leak...? It's possible there is a small tear or puncture in the liner below the water line... have you let the pond drain to the point that it seems to 'just stop' losing water? If so, somewhere at that level is a leak.

Tony (OttawaPonder)started this thread http://backyardpuddle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183 about finding leaks, some good tips in there.

I do not have experience using a soil moisture meter, Jackie or Bonnie, or someone else who is very much into gardening, plant care, soil conditions might...?

Best to hold off hiring a crew to tear the pond apart, this could be a simple fix.

[Jackie Ramo]

From reading you post I would suggest simply to fix the rock that is out of place in the waterfall so the water goes into the pond. If that fixes the problem then it is solved.

I would spend the few dollars under 10 for a soil moisture meter and measure the moisture. Also water test kits found at your local fish store will be necessary to test the water for the fish's health.

You may at some time wish to restructure the pond but it depends on how interested you become in the hobby.

Welcome to the board. Feel free to ask any questions.

BTW I removed the extra thread so folks, like me, won't become confused.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Be careful that whatever you do doesn't allow the water to run behind the liner, as happened to me when I thought I was fixing a leak at my waterfall between my upper bog and main pond. Overnight it inverted my pond, tossed all our plants and stands, and had the fish stranded on the surface. Water for our pond is free except the hydro cost to pump from my well, or I'd have some explaining to do at the loss of almost 10,000 gallons, not to mention the fish.

[ANDYinSanDiego]

Hello all:

Thanks for all of the help and advice. It’s really comforting to know there are so many knowledgeable people out there. I plan on keeping this a hobby for a long time.

Regarding the questions about San Diego’s weather, it’ pretty much always the same. Lately, the temperature has averaged in the high 60’s, and there has been a little more rainfall than usual, about twice a month.

Currently, I’m losing about 1-1.5 inches of water per week. This, of course, is better than the inch I was losing per day before. I’m still not sure if this is normal for a 10X10 2000 gallon pond, however.

Maybe I can post a picture to let everyone know what I’m dealing with – does anyone know how I would make the file smaller to attach it……it’s a jpeg now and much too large to post.

Thanks again for everything.

[Jackie Ramo]

Water loss is one of those variables that are hard to pin point. On a hot windy day the water level will drop quickly. If a stream and large waterfall are part of a pond system, there will be more loss due to splashing and evapouration. So it is hard to say if your loss is normal for your pond or not.

Several options for pictures. One Terri has set up a members gallery where you can post pics and link to the board. Two send the pic to Terri or myself and we will post it for you. Three email the pic to yourself, the software will ask if you want to make the picture smaller, say yes and it will downsize it for you, resave and post. Four, open the picture in any photo editing software and resize the image.

How did you solve the water loss problem?

[ANDYinSanDiego]

Thanks again for the help.

The water loss problem is still there, like I said about 1 to 1.5 inches per week, and all I'm doing is filling it up once a week with a hose (after adding a chlorine/chloramine remover).

I'm thinking of getting a float valve reinstalled, since the last one broke.

Thanks - this message board is great!

[ANDYinSanDiego]

I think I finally learned how to post the picture, thanks for all the assistance. Here it goes....

So as you can see in the picture, the area behind the koi pond, where the wall is, is where the water was going. Beyond the wall is where I saw signs of consistent moisture - such as a lot of plant and mold life. Beyond the wall is a slight hill leading down to a street.

Thank you very much.

[Jackie Ramo]

Did you move the rock in the water fall that was directing the water the wrong way? If there is a lot of splash around a waterfall you often get water loss without actually having a leak. Again it is a matter of playing with the rocks so the water is always directed back to the pond.

Nice pond, is that a papyrus?

[ANDYinSanDiego]

Hello again:

I posted a close up of the rocks and the waterfall below. I moved one of the rocks that was raising the water level, thus causing water to spill out over the side and past the liner (this had likely been going on for years). The only other issue I have is that the big rock below the waterfall causes the water to splash away from the pond before eventually ending up in the pond. Although it eventually does end up in the pond, I imagine this “extra step” can cause some water loss as well. I don't know if it's worth restructuring all the rocks however - the big rock I'm talking about is quite large, and would require removing all the rocks around the waterfall area.

Thanks for the complement about the pond. I think it is Papyrus, I don’t know much about plant names but I think that’s what the previous owner told me. Also, there is pomposs (sp?) grass as well, which are also called elephant ears I think.

Thank you very much.

[Werner]

Andy--My 2 cents--1" to 1.5" water loss per week is normal. It's due to evaporation and plant aspiration and nothing to worry about.

[n2h2o]

hi andy, and everyone else//
Id say in your area up to 2-3 in the winter and 3-4+ in the summer is average water loss. I lived in pasadena (about an 1.5 hours norht) for some time and serviced many ponds.. and find that number to be reasonable for water loss.
Around there/here most pool guys say 1-2" a week on a pool, so i factor in the water falls, streams and plants, plus observation and come up with 3-4" in the summer..

welcome to the board and the hobby..