Gg

[Jackie Ramo]

Well just when you think all is well in the pond...The first pic at first glance shows her the picture of health.

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2675.JPG

But when you look closely

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2670.JPG

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2683.JPG

Now on Friday she did not look this way. Over the weekend we had a winter storm and lots of cold rain, sleet and snow.

There is no room to bring her in, so any ideas of what should be done with her.

[Terri]

Well, you can leave her be and take the chance...ro add salt to the pond, or give her a salt bath and release her back to the pond... or you can do what you did with Spice and bring her indoors to warm water and low salted water.

Go with your gut Jackie, what do you want to do? Each protocal has it's pro's and con's, it's up to you to weigh the odds of each.

(I can pick the babies up tomorrow morning instead of Friday)

[Jackie Ramo]

I haven't decided what to do as yet. I've thought about it hard last night but have taken a wait and see for today at least. She actually looks better today than yesterday afternoon. (batteries dead so no pics) With the sunshine the water will hopefully warm up a bit more. I'm loath to handle her as she is huge and I don't have the right equipment.... and its not in the current budget either...

I took pics of the other fish and all of them are in just great shape considering they are just coming out of winter. Even GG came over to see if I had food for her. They still had no interest in strawberries... looking for shrimp I'm sure.

[Jackie Ramo]

Well when I came home from the studio she was sitting on the bottom of the pond and the rest of the fish were foraging. She came up to see me and I saw that her tail fin had a bright red streak in it. Anyway, that decided me that she would have to come into the greenhouse.

Smith helped me move stuff around and bring in the 100 gallon stock tank, yes I know not nearly big enough for GG but all that is available today. I salted to 0.1 and put the 250 pump I use for circulation in the greenhouse pond into the tank. It has a small foam filter and so some active bio, not nearly enough, so I primed the water as well.

GG was givena 0.66 salt bath for about 20 minutes and then was put in her new home.

This is one Big Fish!!
http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2690.JPG


A pic of the sore on her side. Just one scale

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2698.JPG

A belly shot, see the scales sticking out, a bit of pink underneath but at this point that may be stress from handling

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2706.JPG

[Jackie Ramo]

The other side of the belly

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2702.JPG

And her new home, not pretty for sure

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2707.JPG

[Jackie Ramo]

I have not done a scrape and scope. I decided to do the salt bath rather than to knock her out and for the scrape. I had a small look at her gills and the bit I could see looked fine.

My plan so far is to warm her up and see what happens.

I will say one thing here. I have a lot of respect for folks that handle fish bigger than GG... Two arms full of wet wiggling fish is not a pleasant experience. Although I am happy to say she only lost one scale through out this ordeal.

Any suggestions or ideas would be appreciated. Its always easier when it some one elses fish !rofl

[Cinnamon]

Jackie good luck with GG. I hope she pulls out of it for sure. The pics help me to learn. I am not one for advise here as me being the New Kid on the block! :lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

Pam, I never mind that people learn from my mistakes. I hope I learn from them. There is always something new, something over looked when dealing with fish. And I will repeat, its a lot easier when you sit behind the computer and help others rather than trying to manhandle a fish the size of GG. I'm sure by then end of this I'm gonna wish I had left her in the pond.....

[Terri]

Pro's and con's to each way we all "could" deal with our wet pets. Her colour looks good. Scales look lifted but not "dropsy"-ish(is that a word?). I'm sure she will recover just as Spice has... same symptoms, same treatment. I know of a certian gentleman that would have recommended the course of action you've taken. You know the drill, waterQ... stay on top of it. Fingers crossed Gg will be fine.

Be calling you in a few moments...

[Jackie Ramo]

Thanks for the phone call. Yes her colour is good and as I said, she wasn't like this on Friday so I think it is caused by variables from that winter storm in April... so she hasn't been sick long, another thing for folks to consider when making treatment decisions. Had she come out of winter this way at first thaw I may lean to being more aggressive in my decisions.

Spice has made a full recovery so we hope GG has the same results.

[Busy B]

Goodness...your having a rough spring but they are so lucky they are at your house and not mine! I wouldn't have a clue! But you sure have given me things to think about if something like that happens.

[Terri]

I have to go out first thing tomorrow so I'll just head to your place after I do my stuff... Just found out Friday is no good to come.

[Jackie Ramo]

Busy this is an easy spring, no ones dead, yet. Mind, I've seldom lost fish in winter. A couple of late babies a couple of years ago. Lost a few the winter after they were all sick but hey, I can count how many on one hand lost to winter in 14 years of ponding. That's not bad. Little ones are harder to save than the big ones and GG is a bigun, lots of reserves there even after a long winter.

The main pond sure does look empty without her though.

Terri I'm around all day. Doing water changes !rofl

[Cinnamon]

Jackie one question here. What caused GG to be this way? With the scales sticking up etc. I am the student remember :)

[Jackie Ramo]

I think it is just cold stress. The other thing that causes scales to stick out is a bacterial infection referred to as dropsey. Dropsey I believe is the fish swelling up as the kidneys have stopped functioning properly. Some say it is uncurable as too much internal damage has been done... others have differing opinions :grin:

Dropsey is often seen with popeye, which is not Rembrandt in this case but the eyes popping out.

[Mudsow]

AAAARRRGGG!!! I hate computers!! I just had this whole thing typed out and it locked up on me. @#$$@!!! Now I have to remember what I said. :mad:

AAAnnnyway:
Jackie, why don't you try this fish catching approach. I can't remember who told me about this on koi-vet a few years ago but it works great! Of course none of my fish now can still fit in this bucket it was a good idea at the time.

You'd just need to find a rubbermaid container large enough for GG or a new garbage can or something big like that. Figure out how deep the water would need to be to cover her (8" maybe) then drill holes around the container 8" from the bottom.

When catching the fish, lay the bucket on it's side in the pond, guide the fish into it and flip it up slowly lifting to drain the excess heavy water.

Then have someone help you lift GG and a few gallons of water. When I used this method to move my fish before it seemed to cause the least amount of stress for the both of us :-P

Mudsow :smile: I love my computer, I love my computer <goes to hit submit>

[Jackie Ramo]

Mudsow, thanks for the tips. I have tried in the past to usher my fish into a container but they want no part of it... I've seen it done, but not with my fish. Had not thought of drilling holes in the container but that is an excellent idea. Smith and I have just about broke our backs trying to lift the full container out of the water onto the patio. Trying to empty some of the water usually meant the fish escaped.... tricky those fish!!

What I have done is buy a sock net. (Thanks Terri for the quick personal delivery) I will use it for the first time this morning, moving GG from the stock tank into the indoor pond. 3 big fish in a 370 gallon pond is not going to be fun. I dreamt last night that they spawned!!!! More like a nightmare.

[Jackie Ramo]

I have the barrel I used as a filter last year and will set it up again now. Last year I used it as a TT with the flow coming in from a spray bar over scrubbies and then out from the bottom into the pond. I can set it up as a upflow which would give them more water volume over all. Still fill it with scrubbies and seed it from cleaning the filters today.

Does anyone have a recommendation which would be the best setup.

[Terri]

If you're looking for more water volume then upflow would be the way to go. Do you have a ball vavle you could place on the inlet hose? I think that fitting was 1"? Would be handy to have that when cleaning the barrel out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "seed" the filter? Not squeezing in dirty water I hope? You'd be surprised how quickly that media will catch on with just the small addition of some media from the present filter.

How's Gg looking this a.m.?

(you're welcome)

[Jackie Ramo]

GG was grateful for her 6:30am water change... haven't shut off the pump to have a good look at her as yet.

Yep, squeeze some dirt into the new filter. It will have a settlement area at the bottom and I am not going to clean the entire filter in there. Since the bioforce doesn't have parts I can take out and put there I have to put what I can.

Not sure if more water volume or better filtration is what I need. The TT way gives the best filtration the submerged way gives more water volume.... maybe its a catch 22 question. No ball valves...

[Terri]

Ideally you need both :grin:

Ok, not the ideal situation here so... go with the TT if you're looking to set this up quick since you already have the parts. If not, grab a ball valve at HD and two more fittings(threaded end) and set up for submerged upflow - you can also add an airstone to the barrel, this will encourage better bio activity. Trying to remember, that fitting maybe 3/4" instead of 1"...? Anyways, the upflow will give you more volume and more filter, the TT will give you more filter capacity but little in the way of more water volume.

Choice is yours :)

[Jackie Ramo]

Well, let me kick myself a dozen times for not getting a sock net sooner... wow, it took less than 5 seconds to net her and move her and I didn't even get wet!!! No help from hubby as he is at the office and none needed. Big difference from holding two arms full of wiggling fish. Those who have put off this purchase like I have, move it up the list of must haves.

GG seems much happier in with her boyfriends. I decided to do the upflow filter and am now crossing my fingers that the inflow and outflow are equal... so far so good.

I have salted to 0.15 but am nervous of another Ich outbreak, should I salt higher?

I need a nap now. :smile:

[Terri]

Plain and simple Jackie, answer is "no". Keep the bottom of the pond clean and stay on top of those filters, you shouldn't have a problem. Now for Gg, you migth want to up the salt to 0.2% (or 0.3%) because of her situation.

You know..., I tend to do things differently :grin: The last out break of ICH I dealt with (tropical aquaria here) I did nothing but frequent water changes and gravel vac for about 10 days(maybe).. no salt, no chems, ICH all gone and healthy fishies ;) The only reason I had the ICH outbreak in that tank was because I got "lazy" with w/c and vac'ing...

[Jackie Ramo]

Ok I'll leave well enough alone for now. GG doesn't need more salt than 0.15, she looks better already. Still not 100% but the back end scales are lying down and she no longer looks to explode.

I vac each day and keep an eye out. I cleaned the mechanical and the bioforce filters today. The mechanical is not doing its job... but not sure why.

I've run the new filter off the bioforce and then back into the pond through the little waterfall that is also stuffed with scrubbies. Good job this is the end of winter and not the beginning.

Twice I though GG was going to knock over the TT.... should prove to be an interesting couple of weeks.

[BonnieIN]

Wow Jackie, the kids are keeping you busy!
HUM..... aren't you normally cussing about Tweet and he isn't giving you problems? :wink:

So glad to hear that Gg is improving!

Bonnie

[Jackie Ramo]

Well I think GG was faking it so she could get close to her boyfriend Tweet in the warmth. Looks like she lost 10 lbs this morning, no swelling, no raised scales and ate during the water change. She is still full of eggs but now looks like a normal fish.

Oh Bonnie, I am sure that Tweet will be giving me problems again in no time. I believe that is his full time hobby.

One gets to really appreciate the grace of large fish in these small quarters. Two plant stands and all that tubing to swim around and they look like they are performing a ballet as they follow each other around the pond.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I am thrilled that GG is better! WTG! You are a good Momma :grin:

[Terri]

Nice to hear Gg is back to normal :)

[Dewi]

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

[Jackie Ramo]

Yes, she came to hand to eat and I suspect will be eating us out of house and home in no time at all... GG also stands for Garbage Guts.... :grin:

May need more than one water change a day!!!!

[The Other Lynda]

Jackie, I'm so glad GG is better! You are a very good fishy mommy! You must feel so relieved...

[Jackie Ramo]

WEll, I'm an average fish mom. Just don't leave me in charge of real children :smile:

[The Other Lynda]

Hey, you're not so bad with human children! Gage is thriving and he still loves you! Of course, he's not quite two... !rofl

[Busy B]

I'd let you watch my kids anytime...when do you want them? :lol:

Glad GG is doing better!

[Jackie Ramo]

Gage is a sweetie and knows at an early age to mind his Gran or else!!!

Busy, send them down, send money, I'll cruise the bars with them and show them the sites. :smile:

[Jackie Ramo]

GG still has a few issues. Here is her tail. not quite in focus but she waves the darn thing around like a flag!!!

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2749.JPG

Still in this pic you can see she is no longer bloated

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2731.JPG

with her boyfriend

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2735.JPG

Tweet is looking good !!! happy to have big company

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2741.JPG

[Jackie Ramo]

Watching her zic and zag around the obstacles in the pond shows her grace.


http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2745.JPG

[Busy B]

She does look better! Spose the issue with the tail is being from being moved still? Maybe still a tad bit of stress even if she is with her beau? :grin:

[Jackie Ramo]

The red in the tail is why I brought her in as quick as I did. I had hoped it would have gone down by now. She has quite a bit of damage from handling which is why I didn't want to bring her in. Handling a big fish is way different that thos little one handers.

GG has a big tear in her dorsal fin, a few loose scales that are healing nicely, a big cut on her tail not realted to the red pot in the picture... I've kept the salt at just aroun 0.1-0.15 so hopefully that and the warm water is all she will need. She is eating... and swimming with her beau. If they spawn in there, I'm in big do do....

[Terri]

The redness in Gg's tail is way better than it was a few days ago Jackie, she's doing quite well by the looks of it.

Now that you've said the "s" word it's sure to happen ya know ;-) LOL *there goes that TT*

[Jackie Ramo]

Look at the pic of GG swimming under the stand that holds the TT up... it sure looks easily tipped.... Even if they don't spawn, if she has a flash in there I'm going to have a big mess.

[Jackie Ramo]

Seems one thing leads to another. GG had damage done to her tail, probably by me handling her although I don't remember her hitting her tail on anything. It didn't look more than a scratch yesterday although I did see one ray was broken... Pics isn't that great but

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2782.JPG


The piece that came off

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN2783.JPG

I've upped the salt level and straightened the TT up... one can only guess what they were doing :twisted: to knoock it about.

[Terri]

Ouch... bloody fish and their fins !grrrr I have a ginrin bekko butterfly here that had the same thing happen a few weeks ago... have NO idea how it happened. I don't remember G's tail having a broken ray just the redness. At least it will grow back...

[Jackie Ramo]

Its actually 4 rays... nasty but its not red and one can see the healing starting. She has also since yesterday split her dorsal fin in half... But other than those two injuries everything else looks good, the red marks are all gone now.