Another New Member From Montreal!

[Koidaddy]

Welcome Afishionado!

KD
!welcome

[marla]

Welcome to the forum. :)

[philly]

!welcome to the forum, there's lot to learn and talk about and with KD around there lots of TROUBLE you can get into also.
:lol:

[Afishionado]

Thanks folks!

Don't get your hopes up though... I currently do not have a koi pond (or even a goldfish tank for that matter). I have given some serious thought to a pond, but so far no concrete plans... if I do it, I want to do it right, and at the moment I figure that would involve more of a cash outlay and renovation project than is in the cards for the next year or two.

I've kept aquariums for 20+ years, and currently have a few african cichlid tanks running. I have become rather fascinated by koi over the years though and this site caught my attention as some of the questions that interest me concern how to build a pond for this climate (not to mention all the great pics here you only get to see by registering...)

One question really does nag at me - to those of you in a climate comparable to or worse than Montreal (sorry - southern Ontario just isn't quite as harsh)...
How much of the year do you really get to enjoy your pond? I'm thinking it must be frozen over close to 4 mths of the year, then too cool to really sit out & enjoy that much for another 3 months or so... basically leaving May-September. You're obviously going to tell me it's worth it to you anyways - please indulge me with your thoughts on this. (Can you tell I'm looking to be talked into it? :grin: )

[philly]

To answer a couple of your questions, a friend of mine has his pond heated, feed and enjoys his koi all winter long but does say his heating bill and koi food is costly for the extra few months but he enjoys it very much. Some other members cover their ponds which buys a little more time to view their koi and gives them the opportunity for an earlier spring start up. Now I myself enjoy my koi whenever there is time available in my busy schedule, could be 10 o'clock at night with the lights on or 6:30 am I'm outside feeding and watching my koi, it's how they swim around gracefully and carefree that makes you forget all your troubles till you get back to reality, but before jumping head in visit KD he's in your area enjoy his koi a little of course you will have to bring the drinks with you and get a feel for it, the down side to having a pond, there work involved with it. Don't get me wrong I love puttering around the pond for hours and spend many many hours watching my koi to the point where the MRS gets really pissed but I have always come up with a good excuse for my lateness. :grin:

[Jackie Ramo]

Welcome to the board.

Although we really only enjoy the ponds for 6 months of the year to me it is worth it. To have the fish remember you each spring is still a thrill after 20 years. Yesterday my chagoi Elf came up to get his head rubbed, well, actually he was looking for shrimp but let me rub his head anyway.

[lakefever]

with the way this spring is going we might have a few weeks before ice up :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Koidaddy]

Well Said, Phil!

Afishionado, Yes it's true, living in Montreal our pond season is short in comparison to those living in the luxurious south, but nonetheless, our shorter season still has lots to offer! Put it this way, some of us travel for a week or two each year to some sunny and exotic destination and find the experience all the worthwhile, even if in the end it's just memories... so, try and think of your koi in the same vein. Trust me, once you have your pond and experience the tranquility, even if only for 5 or 6 months a year, you wouldn't trade it for the world! I know I wouldn't ... But then, I'm an addict! :yup:

You are welcome to visit my humble pond anytime -
KD
:-)

[philly]

Well Said, Phil!
You are welcome to visit my humble pond anytime -
KD :-)

ARE you that sure I'm welcomed. :HAHA:

[Koidaddy]

ARE you that sure I'm welcomed. :HAHA:

Well you.... That's another story! :censored:

KD
:HAHA:

[Terri]

welcome Afish :)

[Afishionado]

Thank you all for the warm welcome! I've been doing some reading here and am really impressed at everyone's industriousness and dedication with regards to their ponds. There is clearly a ton to know about building and running a pond, and this place seems to be a wealth of information!

I am really still at the 'dreaming' stage and so will not be bothering you all too often just yet... I would really like to pursue the idea of a pond but a lot has to happen first. eg: Other unrelated expenses. Then the yard will need to be fenced in (in my stuffy municipality that will not be done cheaply!)

As I live in a semi-detached house on a corner lot in a town that is anally Victorian about what you can build where (and how you build it) there will be rather tight constraints on the location of the pond. It is also a 'finished' yard (deckwork, pavingstone work, mature trees, cabana already in place)... I can move some gardens around but the pond will otherwise need to fit in. Ideally the yard would be designed around the pond but re-doing the whole yard just won't fly in my case.

...So it remains to be seen whether this pond will be suitable for koi (It will HAVE to at least be suitable for pond comets, there MUST be fish - my rules!).

All that said, I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't recognize that I'd best think this through and plan it all out well in advance...

[Jackie Ramo]

There are many ways to make a pond bigger, raising the sides is easy and a raised pond looks very nice offering a place to sit and be close to the fish. Not to mention, the Victorians loved their raised ponds :)

[Afishionado]

I think I would want it to be slightly raised, maybe 8"-12", as there is standing water on the ground for a period of time in the spring that I probably wouldn't want running into the pond.

Although raising the sides would increase the volume I thought that it really wouldn't buy me anything in terms of koi being able to overwinter in it as the raised part is not insulated by the ground??

[marla]

I'm in agreement, and so very happy we decided to add the ponds to our yard. We also do not have a long season to enjoy the ponds, maybe 5-6 months, but the time we do have is cherished and well worth it. Yes the koi are beautiful and graceful and do seem to just float, but if you can't make the pond large enough to have them then you are wise to go with a smaller fish then stuffing a large koi in a small pond. I also have Comets and Shubunkins, I tend to like the long fins best they are a bit slower of a swimmer, and do make good fish and winter well.

[philly]

Marla, I agree with you and Comets and Shubunkins are much much more hardier than koi. :yup:

[Koidaddy]

Marla, I agree with you and Comets and Shubunkins are much much more hardier than koi. :yup:

Ditto! - Indestructible!

[Afishionado]

I checked by-laws and took a few measurements... maybe not so bad after all. This crude sketch gives an idea of the maximum space I'd have to work with ('scuse the, uh, 'artwork')... The yard as a whole is quite a bit larger than this sketch, but the rest of it is pretty much useless for a pond either due to offsets and bylaws or existing structures, deckwork, etc.

The pink areas are pavingstone patio-work. The blue is potential pondspace, 16' x 14' minus 1/4 of a 12' diameter round patio. (I've already subtracted a foot everywhere for the pond walls/edge stones.) The transparent cloud shapes are trees.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/Afishionado/pondsketch.jpg

That theoretically works out to 140 square feet or so of pond surface. If I were able to manage an average depth of 5' that would work out to just over 5,000 gallons I believe... In practice I'm sure it would be somewhat less due to some corner rounding, wall sloping, bottom sloping, etc.

What do you think of these dimensions - is there potential for a reasonable koi pond?

Edit: my math is terrible today; 16*14 - (3.14*6*6/4) = 195 square feet, not 140! Oh well, I guess that makes 5,000g even more attainable :)

[Peg]

Our pond is 5' deep and is raised as well. We could only go 4' in to the ground due to the rock. You can use the fill from the pond to help you raise the ground level around the pond, Here are some pics. You can see how things change over time. We got rid of the grass on the upper level as it was a PITA to cut.

[Peg]

The whole area around the pond was raised except the far side where the veggie filter is.

[Afishionado]

Nice! Thanks for sharing the pics Peg, your back yard looks like a really relaxing place to hang out.

The idea of building up the ground a bit occurred to me - I'd be careful about it though as the oversight overkill committee has thought of that too ("though shalt not affect drainage by tinkering with land elevations by more than x millimeters...") If I build it I think I'll aim to get the 5' below gound. Raising it by an additional 8" would be just to make sure I don't get any groundwater spilling into the pond - the spot I indicated is sort of at the low point on the property. The soil here is mostly clay-like. I shouldn't hit any bedrock at that depth.

I don't know if 5' would really be the average. My initial thinking is to try and get an area 6' deep towards the corner opposite from the circular patio and have it shallower near the patio and at the ends adjacent to the patio. The water outlets would be at those ends and the skimmer & BD at the deep part (obviously). Some shelf space for plants would be neat if workable.

Have I gone off track yet? :lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

Hey Peg, like the new deck under the swing but the pups want to know who's using their swing??? :HAHA:

[Peg]

DADDY!! of course :HAHA:

[philly]

I suggest you build the pond a big as you're allowed you won't regret that decision later on, you will Thank me fo it. :HAHA:

[Afishionado]

I read up on the local bylaws and found that since I'm on a corner lot, to fence the yard in I will have to

A) rip out the perfectly good existing decidual hedge, replace it with a coniferous one, and build a wood fence behing it, or

B) put in a wrought-iron fence behind the existing hedge, or

C) build a brick/masonry wall.

C) sounds too expensive, and B) will not provide the privacy I would want from a fence... A) seems like the only way to go, but will be a tough sell with a missus who is already skeptical. I am not deterred (already ripped out a tree stump that was in the way) - it is seeming though that the quest to keep koi (or at least have a pond) will test my worthiness!

So much of the price-tag of the property (and the property tax) is for the land as opposed to the house itself, and we do so little with the land (spend all our time indoors except for property upkeep time), that putting a pond in to draw us outdoors more seems to make so much sense...

I hope I am able to see it through and still have something to post here about a year or two from now...

On the subject of my dear wonderful other half, she is an unremediable non-swimmer. I don't want her to be scared of going near the pond and certainly don't want it to be a hazard for her... safety ledges would obviously be needed in the design in any pond over 3-4' deep. Any other tips?

Thank you all for your kind advice so far!

[Jackie Ramo]

I would certainly consider a raised pond in that event. One where you could sit on the edge and enjoy the fish without the fear of falling in. I'm a non swimmer myself, not because I can't just because I don't like it.

[philly]

I myself don't swim but have my pond and also go fishing quite often, yes I have be told many many times to take swimming lessons but never did, I do respect the water and don't take things for granted especially around winter time I'm extremely careful, do let someone know when you are out there. :yesyes:

[Koidaddy]

I would certainly consider a raised pond in that event. One where you could sit on the edge and enjoy the fish without the fear of falling in. I'm a non swimmer myself, not because I can't just because I don't like it.


She swims every night.... just not in water! :lol:






Jackie, Still friends?
:HAHA:

[Koidaddy]

I myself don't swim but have my pond and also go fishing quite often, yes I have be told many many times to take swimming lessons but never did, I do respect the water and don't take things for granted especially around winter time I'm extremely careful, do let someone know when you are out there. :yesyes:


Strange as it is, but I for one have a hard time understanding koi enthusiasts who go fishing - Phil, I hope you throw them back in (after a salt dip and iodine)

KD
:phfft:

[philly]

Yes, we do most of the time unless someone ask for a few and all are released when we fish tournaments, personally I don't eat fish unless it's Halibut from the fish & chips store. :HAHA:

[Jackie Ramo]

I don't think that koi enthusiasts consider koi to be 'fish'. Oddly enough I used to love fish but now can barely stand the smell of it but Smith who hated fish now loves it.... tastes change I guess

[Jackie Ramo]

She swims every night.... just not in water! :lol:

Jackie, Still friends?
:HAHA:

And to think my friends didn't think I drank enough last night. Darn Sikhs can drink you blind.

[philly]

Well if you drank that much you wouldn't get blind but you probably might have been seeing blurred. :grin:

[Jackie Ramo]

No, they were complaining I didn't drink enough!!! Have you watched the bollywood movies. Sikhs consume more scotch than Scotland!!!!

[Afishionado]

!rofl Clearly a tactful people with good taste !rofl

[Jackie Ramo]

Listen, if you like good food, good conversation, and a lot of good booze, cultivate a few Sikh friends. It has taken a few parties for them to get used to us but now we are treated as one of them. They even say Smith dances like an Indian. A high compliment I assure you!!! Its a very interesting experience to be the the minority persons since we are used to being the majority.

[Afishionado]

Jackie, I don't doubt you for a second on that and can well imagine it would be an enrichening experience. ...I was merely referring to their taste in liquor in this instance (scotch, a favorite of mine).

[philly]

As you know I'm not a drinker but I do like Johnny Walker Black when attending some functions.

[carcha koi]

Phil when you are up my way I have stocked trout ponds 15 minutes away. Let me know. Even Terri likes the eating the fish.

[carcha koi]

Sorry Afishinado Welcome.
There are always ways to put a pond in and some of the bylaws are nuts. The big one around here is when you are on the water(river, lake) you have to put a fence around your pool. Like people don't drown in the river or lake.

[philly]

Is the ponds spring fed and how large are they. Do you fish Bass & Crappies ?

[carcha koi]

I have several spring fed ponds, a few acres in size. Most have trout, some have bass and walleye. Terri and Ian have fished there, well mainly Ian, Terri went swimming

[philly]

Can I get my buddy's bass boat in there and how many rods do I have to bring out of the 50 rods I own.
:lol:

[carcha koi]

No boats but the rods won't hurt. Hope you can fly fish as some of the Browns and Brooks are hard to catch.

[philly]

Fly fishing is not for me you have to have a certain feel for it, although I did fish the Grand river for brooks about 6 years ago and I ache all over from not casting properly with the fly rod . :banghead:

[Jackie Ramo]

Jackie, I don't doubt you for a second on that and can well imagine it would be an enrichening experience. ...I was merely referring to their taste in liquor in this instance (scotch, a favorite of mine).

Sorry don't want to sound like I was lecturing I certainly didn't mean to.

We discovered single malts in Scotland, ruined us and not just financially :doh:

[Koidaddy]

I have several spring fed ponds, a few acres in size. Most have trout, some have bass and walleye. Terri and Ian have fished there, well mainly Ian, Terri went swimming


Hey Chris, Cool! I thought your "trout days" were a thing of the past - Are the ponds part of your property or are they located elsewhere?
:frisbee:

[Koidaddy]

Sorry don't want to sound like I was lecturing I certainly didn't mean to.

We discovered single malts in Scotland, ruined us and not just financially :doh:

A-fish, Jackie sometimes sound bossy, that's cuz she is, orders that husband around like a poodle... But in the end you can't find anyone nicer or more caring - Sometimes the written word is misleading... I know this first hand.

Time for a group Hug!
:grouphug:

[Afishionado]

Hey, there's no issue here :) - just taking care that my own written words didn't come across wrong (being new and unknown).

[carcha koi]

The ponds are on a friends property. Just have the fish out there for fun.
I live in town. No room for what I woulkd like.

[Koidaddy]

Hey, there's no issue here :) - just taking care that my own written words didn't come across wrong (being new and unknown).

Cool !

[philly]

Chris, how do you fish the ponds so when I do make arrangements to come up I can select the proper fishing rods for that type of application, it's been raining all day here how is your pond doing now that's it's somewhat warmer ? :smile:

[carcha koi]

Freezing rain and ice pelltes right now. About 2-3C :flamer:

[Koidaddy]

Freezing rain and ice pelltes right now. About 2-3C :flamer:
Where do I send my sympathy flowers?

KD
:grin:

[Jackie Ramo]

Just keep it all up there big guy, we don't want none of that down here :frisbee:

[philly]

Freezing rain and ice pelltes right now. About 2-3C :flamer:

Where in tarnations are you living buddy rain and ice, it's pretty warm down here now you gotta move south for the kois sake. :yesyes: