Looking for a better way

[Mudsow]

Ok, maybe it's time to re-think my filters.

In looking around, maybe I AM doing this the hard way.

My set up right now is:
An 850 gallon indoor wooden pond with a liner.

I have 2- 1800gph pondmaster submersible pumps. One feeds the 2 bio filters, the other one is just added circulation and mechanical filtration.

Right now I weekly pull out the 3 internal pondmaster filters and hose off the 1" sponge filter (I replaced pondmaster stuff with 1" foam filter material from AES) I use the fine pondmaster filter media under the foam on the filter that runs to the bio-filters. This has been keeping them very clean, I have 2 sprinkler heads on my homemade filter and I only need to clean the screens every week along with everything else.

So far the filters are keeping up with the fish load. My concern is that everytime I pull out the internal things to clean them 1/2 the gunk dumps back into the pond and it takes a good 1/2 hour to slowly vaccuum the bottom while I'm doing their water change. It's no problem to just vaccuum, I mean I'm changing out the water anyway but I'd like to avoid the crap dispersal if I can.

And it's no real picnic leaning over the slop sink hoseing off filter sponges. (my back can't take it too long)

So questions:
Is there anyway to eliminate the internal mechanical filtration while using a submersible pump?

I prefer the submersibles only because I don't want to come home to a flooded basement and I like the quiet pumps. If there is a power outtage, they just start right back up, no fuss.

If I eliminate the pre filters and use some type of external homemade vortex would using a submersible pump chop the crap up too fine for it to settle?

Does that mean that I could just turn a knob attached to the bottom of the vortex and flush away the crud daily thus eliminating the whole pre-filter pain in the a@@??

I'm still grasping the concept of making a chambered filter. Hey, I made the trickle tower, I thought that was good! It does work nice. It's got 2 sprinkler heads and just full of scrubbies. It's been running for 2 years now and I've only cleaned it once! I must say, the pre-filters do a nice job there.

I'm not complaining about water quality, just looking for an easier way. :-?

Thanks, Mudsow

[Jackie Ramo]

You setup is not that different than mine. I have two pumps one 950 gallon and one 250. The 250 is just to move the water but I move the water on the bottom to sweep the debris to the filters. The mechanical filter on the 950 is matting but coarse, it filters well as it is wrapped around a perforated pipe several times. This means it doesn't clogg and doesn't need to be cleaned as often. The sponge filter on the 250 has to be rinsed out every 3 or 4 days but since it is just mechanical I do it under the tap in the laundry sink. The 950 is split to a bioforce 500 and the TT. I am sure the TT would work better if it all went to the bioforce first but I am only running the system for the winter 7 months not year in and year out.

So I'll watch this thread and hope that suggestions for you will help me as well. Oh and I understand the gunk going back in... just got Ich from that happening....

[Terri]

Just a few thoughts,

... eliminate the sponge on the pump intake and replace with a "cage" of sorts, something that the fish can not get through (like what the laguna pumps have to hold the sponge inplace or a piece of pipe with drilled holes or slots).

If you do the settling chamber you will have to add some mechanical media(filter matting) to trap the finer crap - 'cause yes that pump will break up most of the solid waste. With our set-ups using inpond pumps we have switched over to K-1 from the mats for mech, it's done a very good job of keeping the bio areas "clean", and the mech/settlement is easy to dump using a 2" drain line.

[Jackie Ramo]

Is the prefilter sponge on both the intakes? Mine is matting and doesn't require as much cleaning but it does go into another filter...

Ygrowup has aninside pond, and hopefully he will see this thread.

[OttawaPonder]

Mudsow,

MY indoor pond once originally made to noly house my out door pond plants for the winter. Then the mrs asked do you like fish, would you mind having some or do you want some. I said OK - so now I had to redesign my indoor pond and filtration as well. I hope to build it this yr - as I ran out of $$$ to do it over winter as I had planned.

I have a few ideas, that might be of help.
However I lack some info. and/or pictures if you have them.

Do you run this indoor pond 24/7/365?
Or do you only use it during winter?

The questions above help lead one to decided how far one should or might go, if at all, in designing a new filtration for the indoor pond.

MTCW (only my opinion)
1) Lose the submersible pumps for the safety of your fish.
(I and some others have learned the hard way about them)
2) Plus Submersible pumps cost more to operate then external
3) For some time now they have made quiet external pumps

You raised a good point about an external pump leaking and flooding a basement - but there are ways around that. Plus should any one of your connections, out side the pond now, spring a leak, or even a pipe or filter back up, and you are not home to catch it - well you have the same out come - Messy basement. :D BTDT lol

A) So do you have some pictures of your set up?
B) Are you on city sewer?
C) Or do you have a sump pump for your basement?
Where is either B or C located to where your indoor pond is?
D) Is the Pond bottom right on the floor?
E) Or did your build it up using some kind of framing?
F) Do you already have a QT and IF SO - what size is it?
G) How Many fish do you have now?

I be glad to help - if I can (others might have more/better input as well)
Best of luck in whatever you end up doing

Keep us posted and pictures are a must :D

[Mudsow]

Jackie, I don't use the little "pre-filter sponge" I use pondmaster filters. They are about 1' square and I have 1" thick 12"x12" flat filter sponge material in them.

They seem to do alright. Gives the filters a larger area to grab from.

Ottowa, yes I have the fish indoors in this pond 24/7/365 They have been ther for about 4 years now. I've just been slowly reducing my numbers as they've grown.

Started with 5 goldfish and 8 koi, now I have 5 koi and 1 goldfish.

I'm going down to do my weekly water change, so I'll take some good pictures and post back later.

Mudsow

[GregBickal]

Add a Settling chamber !!! I have settling chambers on both of my indoor setups. Im using a Mag drive 1200gph on the one in the garage.

[Mudsow]

Settling chamber? Like I asked earlier, wouldn't a submersible pump chop up the crap too fine for it to settle?

Leaning over the pond and getting out the pre-filters is what I'm trying to eliminate. That's what hurts my back the most. But I fear that I'd have to re-do the entire system to eliminate them.

That's why I'm looking for some kind of solution. I've filtered the pond as best I could with what I "knew". Now the next step is to fix it with what I've learned. :-D So I'm all ears for suggestions.

Here are a few pictures of what I have now.

Mudsow

[Mudsow]

Ottowa, It's resting on the floor. I have a small amount of insulation between the wood and the liner mostly to eliminate any splinters puncturing the liner.

I do have a sump pump in the basement, that is where I drain the pond to in the summer. It goes out into the front yard.

During the winter I drain into the slop sink that gets ejected out into the city sewer. I don't want an ice rink in the front yard :D

It's kind of handy to have the water and drains right there. I couldn't imagine if I had to make water changes a HUGE procedure. They already take quite a while in the winter.

I have a qt, but it's just a 130 gal stock tank, it's not usually set up it resides in my crawl space. It's been getting more use as a cooler for parties than as a fish hospital (thank god!)

I have no real room for fishy additions so it's not needed right now.

Thanks for your input everyone!
Mudsow

[Jackie Ramo]

How efficient are those filters. The seem so small to be effective. I wanted to post a couple pics of mine but of course the batteries were dead. It may be the size of the filers that mean they have to be cleaned so often.

I have a bioforce 500 but they come in different sizes and it or something like it could act as a filter for one of the pumps and then feed into the TT. This would leave the two small ones hooked up to the other pump. Now these would still need to be cleaned but the bioforce wouldnot need it as often.

Sorry to be late in replying here but somehow this post went off my radar

[OttawaPonder]

Mudsow, Yes we have a sump pump - well two as our basement is large.
Living out in the sticks we have no city: water, sewer, gas, nor cable. :( Sad I know.. LOL

Not fully understanding ones set up makes it a little harder to help.
That is why I asked so many questions and still might of left out a thing or two - three. lol

You keep going back to: "Settling chamber? Like I asked earlier, wouldn't a submersible pump chop up the crap too fine for it to settle?"

I know about leaks - however the system you have now still could leak or back up. Not likely but only has to happen once - eh. BTDT lol

LOSE the Submersible PUMP(s) They cost more to operate and more important they can harm your fish - BIG TIME - as I stated before. :D
It ONLY takes the one time and you wish you had switched long before. I know as I lost one of my favorite Koi "Spot".

Knowing you have more then one way to get rid of the pond water/waste you can build a catch basin over or near your sump pump. The catch basin would be, large in size, under the NEW external pump set up. This way should a seal go bad on the pump it would leak in the basin. Hey you could even build a second chamber - and only use it to drain the settling chamber into for weekly clean out. Then you can use one of the submersible pump(s) to pump the waste out of the second chamber to your sink so it can go to the city or to your sump pump pit during the warmer months. Plus when it is warmer you could pump it into barrels outside for watering flower/veggie gardens or just let it go out your sump pit as I said before.

If you went with a settling chamber you could do one of two things:
1) retro fit a BD up and over your indoor pond
2) retro fit by coming in on the side of your indoor pond about three quarter the way up from the bottom.

Do this you only have the one hole in the side and if you have a good size QT - as I asked about before - you could move the babies there while doing this work.

Plus once the set up was finished = NO MORE having to bend over in to the pond to get the old filter or even clean the bottom of the pond it self. Safer for your babies. Less operating cost as well.

LESS work and more enjoyment - isn't that whats its all about :D

I best get my Butt outside to start splitting wood or we will not have any fire wood for next winter. LOL

GOOD LUCK

[Jackie Ramo]

What about one of the retro fit bottom drains?

[Mudsow]

BOY I wish you guys lived closer :roll:

Ottowa, that's alot for my little brain to concieve.

It does sound as though it would be easier though. I'll have to sit down and make some drawings and then show you guys before I do anything.

I NEED to go to a few koi club meetings. Problem is that I'm MUCH more social while siting in my house on the computer :lol:

Not good at meeting new people. :(

It takes a while for things to sink into my thick skull. It took some time for me to figure out the homemede bio filter thingie.

At the time I went with what I was comfortable with.

So you say that there are external pumps that are fairly quiet?? All I know is our pool pump is LOUD. I didn't want to be sleeping above something making too much noise.

Right now I'm using 1" hoses. I can't imagine the volume of water I could move with 2" pipes! The poor kids would look like they're in a toilet bowl!!! But they would probably like it :D

Mudsow