Losing My Buddies

[Hulkster]

First time poster on any forum so be gentle LOL just tried to a little while ago did not work?here is my pond info
started 07-04-2007
18,000 gal
bead filter rated at 30,000 ,4" bottom drain & skimmer, 400watt uv 5' deep
water temp 50 degress farenhiet
40 koi 19" to 1 three incher born in the pond ,baby boo :yup:
nitrites 0 ,ammonia 0 ,ph 8.0
several mistakes were made no QT being one, I dont know as much as I think I should but I will educate my self at every given oppurtinty.6 fish have died I guess from aremonas ulcers all had some sort of sore on them,all the dead ones were purchased from a local dealer [and I later found out had lost most of his fish inventory to aremonas problems]fish were flashing earlier in the year 60 days ago or so treated with pro form c seemed to help also before that treated with melafix when had some ulcers show up 14 days worth$$$$ allso seemed to help by next spring I will have a QT dont know how I will cath the fish that have problems though have tried it seems immpossible. Bought too many [koi] to soon.another mistake.Should have had one of the deceased ones diagnosed. Three fish out of the 40 left have issues 2 have small ulcers some of the fish are flashing again 2 of the fish that have problems I have on more than one time seen them shaking ther heads like a dog shakes a rags. Any help would be greatly apreciated. I am hooked on this hobby and most people would not understand the money I have spent. Our the joy and serintey it brings me to sit by pond and watch my Buddies.Is pp a possible help and I am very leary of it although I have read some redeaming qualities about it.Wait till spring to do any thing. :help:

[Jackie Ramo]

Do not wait until spring! Does your local dealer have a scope? Does he/she do house calls?

What is the water temp? I would think that at this time of year in Colorado that PP would be the only treatment available. Proform C contains formalin and can not be used in cold water and is also hard on open wounds.

If I had to guess what is wrong, my best guess would be flukes, common in cold water and often cause ulcers, head shaking, lying on the bottom although in cold temps fish tend to do that anyway.

The biggest problem is fish need warm water to heal in. Can you set up a facility to house the sick ones with ulcers for the winter?

[GregBickal]

Going into winter with this problem, not a good sign. You should have a KHA (Koi Health Advisor) in the area somewhere...Scrape and Scope a must. If not, treat as tho you have flukes. For a pond that size, Id get a Kilo of Prazi (http://www.fishchemical.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=24_17&zenid=8dd4fd00d4cc562f5701c5ad5a82319a)

[Jackie Ramo]

Prazi is a great choice if one has the budget to spend. Second choice is PP. cheaper by far but not as effective and certainly harder and more dangerous to administer.

With either treatment the fish need warm water to heal. We haven't discussed how big are the fish.

[Hulkster]

Jackie there are multiple sizes form 19" probaly 10 of them rest 9" to 12" one 3" that was born in the pond

[Terri]

Hi Hulkster, welcome to KR

The Rocky Mountain Koi Club is in Colorado, http://www.rmkc.org/ - they have a couple of KHA graduates, try emailing them to ask for on site (home visit) help. KHA's can help you diagnose (with a microscope) what is happening. KHA's are koi hobbyists that volunteer their time to help others in need.

I don't really have much to add in the way of advice. You are not working with ideal circumstances. Best you can do is 'shot gun' the pond with Prazi hoping it is fluke. If this turns out to be the case then you should notice improvement in the fishes behavior in 2-3days. If not you will need to treat with something else after the Prazi has run its course,.. like PP.

You will need to think, make a few hard choices, and remove some fish - less is more as they say.

All of us have been in similar situations with our ponds and fish... when things go wrong we learn, typically get a crash course, and know better for the next time - which one hopes never comes :wink:

[Hulkster]

Terri,Jacki,& Greg Thank you for the advice it all seems to make sense to me Terri are you suggsting I remove the three fish that have visble ulcers & are clearly not doing well

[Terri]

I am suggesting you down size your collection to a select few that really appeal to you and your family...
But yes, removing the ulcerated fish IF they appear to be going downhill fast would be a good idea.

[Jackie Ramo]

Although Terri's advice seems harsh, parasites will leave a dying host pretty damn quick and look for another meal.

There is no way fish with ulcers and not doing well will survive without treatment through the cold of winter, so they will die in the pond, spread their load of parasites and rot spoiling the water as well.

[Terri]

any updates...? What's going on?

[Hulkster]

Terri
I followed your advice salt 0.6 pp treatments,all fish had been flashing constantly before this and allmost immediately quit after salt and pp treatments they seem to all be doing a lot better the 3 with with ulcers did not make it one of the ones on its way out i took to CSU vet center to have tested no parisites, but it was 7 days after salt and 1 pp treatment did order kilo of parzi but did not use, should I have? maybe spring not at all? CSU said fish died of Aremonas.Not much I could do with the ones with ulcers no QT/TT I am in the process of building QT by spring I will be much more prepared no fish in the pond with any visble problems,keeping fingers crossed see what spring bring THANKS AGAIN !!! salt at .10 with lots of partial water changes

[Jackie Ramo]

This hobby is a huge learning curve, after 17 years of having a pond I am still learning. Being prepared is the hardest lesson and it seems you have that one under your belt now.

Flukes can have aremonas bacteria on their hooks that they sink into the fish. This is one of the reasons ulcers are often associated with fluke damage.

[carcha koi]

Lost a lot last year to that. Called in some help from Terri. The koi have no immune system at that temp. They need the warmth to fight off the diseases and bacteria not to mention healing.
Good luck, hope everything works out

[Terri]

I am happy to hear things are going more smoothly for you and your fish. Yes spring will tell the tale of how your fish did through the winter, ways off yet and if needed we can open up that can of worms then.

Chris,... where the h*ll you been?? :grin: