Filters by Design

[ozzyrockman]

Hello all, I have been told that there is no one true "great" filter for any one given pond situation. This being said I would like to find out what people are using with good sucess and what people have found that does not work for the given situation with a discription to the rest of their pond construction. DIYER's welcome! Allen

[ozzyrockman]

The Pondmaster 02211 suitable for "small to medium ponds"
• 12"x12" filter box with locking handle
• carbon and polyester media for
mechanical/biological/chemical filtration
• connects to intake side of pump
• complete with 3/4" I.D. tubing and fittings
• connect more than one to a pump
• for in pond use only
From my experience a few years ago this filter does not work very well even in a "small" pond because it requires too much maintenance and plugs up very quickly even with a small load of babies in the pond. Allenhttp://canadiankoiandpond.ca/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/02211%5B1%5D.jpg

[Terri]

Good topic Allen :)

We have a few DIY filters in operation...
http://canadiankoiandpond.ca/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_k-1_diy_01.jpg
This one is pretty simple,.. two tote's, connected at the bottoms with 2 inch drains("T"d with a valve for draining), one for mech and one for bio. There's kaldnes media in both. Obviously pump fed and gravity flows back tot the tank. It's pretty easy to clean. For a small set up , like a Q tank, it's pretty good.

[ozzyrockman]

From the inoperative little show box filter I graduated to a diy 55g up flow that seemed to work ok in our 750g qt tank with 12 baby koi however it had one major flaw and that was cleaning it. WOW! That was nasty but for the price I wasn’t complaining too much at the time because I assembled it for about $225 including a 12” roll of Matala white super density mat, egg create and plumbing pieces. One thing to consider when building a diy filter like this is that most poly furnace filter mat has a thin layer of linseed oil over it and collapses very easy under pressure. Another diy tip is that the commercial floor pads plug very easily and when used in an up flow will push right out the top so back to the matala. Below is a drawing. Allen

PS Terri, I like the idea of using the k1 in that style filter

Mini up flow with commercial floor pad raising.

http://canadiankoiandpond.ca/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCF0036.JPG
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/55gal_barl1.jpg

[Terri]

I've not had that issue with the floor pads...?

Here's a set up we had a few years back
http://www.backyardpuddle.com/images/qt/nov02-26.jpg
I swear we bought out several $ store's scrubby stock :lol: this set up ran on a 500 gallon tank with sever 4-9" koi through the winter months. During the warm months it was outside used on the water garden.

Ian's in the process of setting up a barrel system for one of our large tanks... when he completes that I'll lpost it.

We've not been one's to purhcase commercial filters in the past. Until recently we always made our own.

[Ron C]

Allen,

Do you have a picture of one? I would like to see it.

Thanks

The Pondmaster 02211 suitable for "small to medium ponds"

[Ron C]

Terri,

What is doing the mechanical filtration?

Good topic Allen :)

We have a few DIY filters in operation...
http://canadiankoiandpond.ca/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_k-1_diy_01.jpg
This one is pretty simple,.. two tote's, connected at the bottoms with 2 inch drains("T"d with a valve for draining), one for mech and one for bio. There's kaldnes media in both. Obviously pump fed and gravity flows back tot the tank. It's pretty easy to clean. For a small set up , like a Q tank, it's pretty good.

[Terri]

Ron, the top tote had ktichen scrubbies and filter matting for mechanical, did a fair job at the time. This has since been changed to a double layer of filter matting which sits ontop of roughly 30L of Kaldnes. This part of the filter is not aerated so the kaldnes packs quite nicely and traps far more "stuff" than the previous way - and without clogging.

The tote in the forefront has two 9" air stones which turns over 75L of kaldnes.

[Ron C]

Thanks Terri...

I think I could do something like that to help my filtration....

Ron, the top tote had ktichen scrubbies and filter matting for mechanical, did a fair job at the time. This has since been changed to a double layer of filter matting which sits ontop of roughly 30L of Kaldnes. This part of the filter is not aerated so the kaldnes packs quite nicely and traps far more "stuff" than the previous way - and without clogging.

The tote in the forefront has two 9" air stones which turns over 75L of kaldnes.

[ozzyrockman]

The Tetra PF3 I recently put in service and testing seems to work good so far in our qt tank of 750g with 9 little koi and a couple goldies. However it does have a few designs flaws that I can see already. First is that it is way over rated for is size and design. I would not suggest using this filter with a medium to heavily stocked fish load in a pond over 1000g. I have this filter currently running with a Tetra DynaTech 1100gph pump and the filter is rated for a 1000gph pump in a max pond size of 2400g. The first thing I noticed with this filter is it has no drain, second the filter only has a sponge mat and a carbon mat both combined are only about an 1” thick. Last the filer only has about four gallons of Bio rings and that is not enough to cover a 2400g pond. Allen

http://canadiankoiandpond.ca/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCF0037.JPG

[ozzyrockman]

Last years big pond filter. This one was an experiment that I feel worked out ok it is 96 gallons and has wheels so I can move it to build my stream and waterfall. I have this one in a 4850g pond currently running at 1650gph with a tetra bottom drain and a danner uv40. I used the Matala 12" mat and I found another poly filter mat that does not have oils on it and is 24"X50'X2" thick separating the large 1.5" lee pin bio balls with egg create matting. This filter works ok but it is a bear when I need to clean it out real well. Also keep in mind this filter was used with only 13 small koi so I do not know how well it will work with a bigger load. I also have recently made a diy mechanical pressure filter with 50l of k1 and I might need to add another 25L to it if needed. I will be making improvements on this one over the next month or so after the new mechanical seasons a bit. Allen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/Revisedfilter1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/Revisedfilter2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/Revisedfilter3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/Revisedfilter4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/Revisedfilter6.jpg

[ozzyrockman]

The verdict is not out on this creation yet however all input suggests that this diy will work well. This filter will go to our 4850g pond with a sequence 1000 5000seq22. I just received the k1 media this afternoon and have it operating with a Hayward 3/4hp pool pump that I used for testing. The Hayward will be replaced due to the power consumption it requires to operate. I do need to make improvements to our filtration system because I am adding 9 more little guys to our big pond later this spring. The reason for calling it the redneck pressure filter is because of the air blower I am going to use. :lol: Allen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0124.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0119.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0118.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0019.jpg[/img]

[Cinnamon]

We are about to construct our first DIY filter. I am purchasing a 180 gallon Tuff Stuff stock tank today. It already has a drain plumbed in the middle just at the bottom of the tank. I figured that would be one less step to getting it going. Any suggestions as per media etc? I have seen some DIY filters where the inline goes down a PVC pipe in the center then comes out at the bottom. That way the water has to pass through the media before coming out at the top. Am I correct on this? I would GREATLY appreciate any help we can get on this.

Pam

[Busy B]

Your pretty clever Ozzy...I like the 96 gallon setup.

You don't plan on continuous use for that blower do you? Isn't that gas operated?

[Ian]

Hey thats pretty cool... The red neck air blower? Is that planned for cleaning or continuous use?
The K-1 is neat stuff to play with and works in a mechanical filter and biological. The mechanical filter the kaldnes can be left static (no motion via air). It will trap a lot of debris and can be bubbled clean as you drain to waste. I find it easy to clean even more so than matting. Many ways to use it as a DIY built setup.
The biological part is a no brainer in it's use as air bubbles in a container the kaldnes rolls around happily carring bacteria in a high oxyegen content water eating the waste away. The constant movement means this media never has to be cleaned and remains maintenance free. This in turn also exposes the media to more water.
I can see myself playing with alot of different ideas when I get the time, sure glad you took the time to share!

Regards Ian

[Busy B]

Never has to be cleaned Ian :confused:

You never have to drain it and refill?

[Ian]

Never to be cleaned in the bio portion is correct. It is in constant motion and does not pick up debris. In our Nexus filter the kaldness in the bio portion is never drained completly and never washed out as there is no need as it is always clean due to the air and water movement, one Nexus 2 yrs old. In our DIY set up it is a very easy set up with one drain and two tubs, so the bio with kaldness gets drained while cleaning the static tub but the bio tub of kaldness never needs to be cleaned .

Regards Ian

[Busy B]

You can laugh at me if you want, but those bugs eat that much kaka or the kaka never makes it to the bio tank?

[Jackie Ramo]

KaKa should never make it to the bio filter.

[Busy B]

Good golly...another light bulb went on :lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

You are soon to be the brightest house on the block then 8)

[Busy B]

I kinda lost interest there for awhile of learning anything new about ponds..8-) Maybe it's the spring weather that's making it seem like time again..

[Ian]

Well I think the idea of removing waste first in the mechanical part of the filter is as important as the bio portion. My idea of bio filtration is a mulm, debris free media that gets circulated water from the pond. It's to remove the unseen watse like ammonia,nitrites and so on. The submerged media can change from good to bad if left to long with built up waste and debris on it. The bacteria will change which is good at removing ammonia and eating waste but will find the fish a tasty treat also. So the mechanical portion should remove as much of the solids as possible before the bio to make a good fish filter. If this is done by the many means that are out there and the bio portion should grow a bacteria that will only be interested in the fishes waste and not the fish themselves. The waste removed from the mechanical on a regular basis keeps the wrong bacteria from taking over.

[Ian]

My favourite mechanical filter. A self-cleaning screen 24/7... as mastercard would say - "Priceless". It sure takes the fun out of making something yourself, but.. it works right out of the box.

[Ian]

The bio portion - left maintenance free for over 2 years now. It is very strong and seems to adapt to whatever we throw at it as in fish load and food. It has never seen meds or salt.

[ozzyrockman]

The blower is not going to be used very often I am only using it when I back flush and the exhaust discharges out the side not out the blower tube.

Busy B the real nice thing about the 96g bio is that it's on wheels so I can move my @%#* tank around while I built our waterfall and stream. Last winter I removed it from the bottom drain, brought it around to the skimmer and connected it to the skimmer pump instead of doing a bunch of plumbing work. Allen

[ozzyrockman]

Pam, how do you plan on placing it with your pond and what other equipment do you have for you pond? Me personally I would not own or build a filter that does not contain submerged media and what you are describing is a good up flow filter.

Pick up a sheet of egg create, one stick of 4" pvc DRAIN pipe with holes, one roll of bird netting (ya the stuff people cover their ponds with) cut the 4" pvc to the width of the stock tank (parallel to the drain and in probably 4 pieces), pack the bird netting inside the 4" pvc drop it in the bottom cut out the egg create to fit. This works better and is much cheaper than any springflow, shipping banding or lava rock for your little unseen harvesters.

For the mat, do you have a Grainger store close to you? I can give you a p/n that I "think" will work well for this and will not break the bank account however I have not tried this mat yet so I cannot say how it will work or if it has linseed oil on it or not. If interested I will post the p/n and let you make the call. Allen

[Busy B]

That is quite handy Ozzy...and the blower makes sense...drain it down, roll it, set it up and your in business!

I've seen pics of kaldness before and there was quite a buildup of bio on it. Enhanced pics of the different bio forms. Never saw any as clean as yours.

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy we are going to put 2 bottom drains in the tank. I will fill it with media and put a layer of the foam type on top of it. Here is a pic of the tank. It also has an opening plumped in the bottom of the tank. We plan on that being the intake. Heiko is going to run pvc on the inside in both directions with holes it in. Then I will fill it with media. We have to plumb the outflow as well. I will build a wishing well over it to disguise it.
We do have a Grainger here.

[Cinnamon]

Heiko wanted me to post this pic. This is what he is thinking as far as the water coming into the tank. He wants to put holes all around it. He wants to know what size holes would work best also.

[GregBickal]

OzzyRockMan: Change the flow comming out of that barrel filter so that it elbows down into the water and gets a vortex flo going. It will still ad air, but will increase circulation.

[Rembrandt]

It kills me to see such beautiful weather on a Monday morning!
Why can't we have this when the weekend is here?

Anyway, I am thinking about cross drilling the holes 1/4" around the entire perimeter at all angles in the uh ....whatever you call this PVC creation I made.

Gonna stop by Lowes and get some more pipe and a gate valve for the waste discharge, and a couple of sealed fittings for the waste discharge and the clean water return. Also need to get my list together for the bottom drains. For these, I figure I will need at least 1 1/2" but may get 2". May even need larger. Up for suggestions on this part. I keep telling Pam, the first prototype was never intended for release to the public. The second one's aren't much better.
The third one, ya hold your breath on. I hope to get lucky and get this one right the first time! I like learning from OTHER people's mistakes. :-|

It does help tremendously that we have a shop to do this stuff.

The whole thing has been design on the fly but I think this will work.

Rembrandt/Heiko
Always learning...

[Jackie Ramo]

Rembrandt, will the water be prefiltered before coming into this filter - is this filter going to be bio?

[Rembrandt]

No, it won't be prefiltered. Pam is going to fill it with a bio-media and we will put a cover over it for hiding purposes and easy access to flush it out.

Rembrandt/Heiko

[Jackie Ramo]

Then I'd want the holes bigger, the small holes will clogg with crap pretty quick and then the filter will stop ... :-(

Please understand I have no experience except a spraybar that got a lot of algae.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I am going to fill it with media and layers of the dense material on top. I have been following everyone's threads on the media. Some say the strapping material but you have to bag it. So I don't know if I will use strapping or Savio media. I guess I will figure it out in a few days. I think the holes need to be pretty big also. I told him over the weekend most people just use the pvc that already has holes in it.

[Jackie Ramo]

Actually I think most folks just pump it in through the one big hole the water will spread itself. Hookups like that are used as spraybars.

But hey, I am not a DYIr, Greg will jump in here at some point I hope

[ozzyrockman]

Below is the filter batting media I was considering using for my next filter. I have not done any research on in yet to find out how long it will last or if it has linseed oil on it. A 45' long X 2" thick X 25" high for $49 dollars is well worth looking at.

Filter,Roll,25x45ftx2 Synthetic Polyester Roll Filter, Actual Length 45 Feet, Depth 2 Inches, Width 25 Inches Grainger Item: 5C443 Price (ea): $49.00 Manufacturer: AIR HANDLER Mfg. Model#: 165BW25452

Last years testing proved to work well with a similar batting however I did have a very light load on a similar media and this year will be putting twice the load on the system but will have a separate mechanical in place to offset the load and will be adding a MR. Blue to MR. Green with a lot more volume.

Nice pipe work ever think about becoming a plumber? You gotta put at least one toilet flange on it I'm telling you it's like putting the frosting on a cake :D :D :D ! For the inlet I would drill 3/8" holes aiming down or down and out only, go as large as you can on the pipe work and use 2" shower drains then to 2" ball valves or 2" socket to male fitting then a female threaded cap to avoid the expense of gate or ball valves you'll have under $20 and have the same principal only diff is you will have a gusher when you pull the caps so look out.

As for the mechanical strapping and springflo I will get a pic of what I am trying describe with the bird netting. After seeing the results first hand I would not spend the money on anything else. I don't think you could get any better results for bacteria bedding and its super easy to clean because it is contained in tubes. Allen

PS send some of that rain our way, we live in Washington and you are getting a lot more rain than we are :-?

[ozzyrockman]

GregBickal, I am going to do just that. I looked at the sacramento pf and thats one of the mods they made to improved their filter design. Thanks for the input. Allen

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy I would LOVE to send you some of this rain! !bonk We have had enough! We can't walk out the south side of our deck. You would sink in the mud! We still have standing water everywhere and it is going to rain again Wed and Thurs. It is not suppose to rain this weekend so I am keeping my fingers x'd for it.

Heiko has already bought the 3 ball valves. You can tell he has done some plumbing work can't you? !rofl He helps his Mom all the time on rent property. I don't do plumbing or electrical. Electricity scares me and plumbing is a s****Y job! :lol: I will call Grainger today about that roll. Also I will ask them if it contains any chemicals such as linseed oil. I may just go that route. Heiko said he wanted to disperse the water all the way around the tank is why he plumbed it that way. He said he may be wrong doing it but that is why he wanted me to post a pic of it and get feedback. I am sure he will add some things when he gets to the office this morning.

[ozzyrockman]

Pam, we would be happy to take your rain. The longest dry spell in history for Washington state was 21 days last spring, as of 2/27/05 we where at 16 days with no rain and the skiing has been shut down all winter. :-? :backon:

Ya I was thinking I may need to contract some work to Heiko and fire the ones I use !dude . Anyway this is a picture of the 4" drain pipe and the bird netting I was talking about. Unroll the bird netting and pack it in the drain pipes. A few of these sitting in the bottom and you will never have to worry about not having enough of a bed in the bottom. This also helps hold the media off the bottom of the tank when used with the sheets of egg create.

The other thing I would suggest is if you find out good news about this batting and use it would be to wrap a rope around it so you can remove it for cleaning out the bottom of the stock tank. Allen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0141.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0140.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0042.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0041.jpg

[ozzyrockman]

Just wait until your back yard starts to look like this. %( :-x :grin: :-? Shoot me know! Allen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DSCF0137.jpg

[ozzyrockman]

Total Pond Filter Expense to date for all three:

Shower Drain fittings 7.5 6 $45.00
Designer Bulkhead 33 1 $33.00
2" cheapo ball valves 12 3 $36.00
2" better ball valve 14 1 $14.00
1 1/2" Ball valves 10 5 $50.00
1" Check Valve 15 1 $15.00
1" Bulkhead fitting 24 1 $24.00
Toilet Flanges 5 2 $10.00
1 1/2" union 8 1 $8.00
2" union 16 1 $16.00
K1 Media 90 1 $90.00
Roll of Metala 125 1 $125.00
Rolls of batting 50 2 $100.00
Misc fittings and parts 125 1 $125.00
Egg create sheets 11 2 $22.00
Containers Free

Total for all filters $713.00

[Busy B]

That doesn't look so bad Ozzy..not a huge footprint at all! And for the price, doesn't look like you could beat it!

[ozzyrockman]

Your too nice Busy B, for the return to the waterfall I was thinking of using a toilet to distract attention away from the filters. :lol: The footprint isn't too bad for the size it takes up is about 3'X7' total and gives me room to work on them if needed. Giving us a total of about 230g of filtration and it should be an effective 230g filter network. Allen

[Busy B]

You could always screen it in with something...lattice, shrubs, fencing...something..

I need to do something with mine but first the snow has to melt!

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy so those 2 things is all you use? No straping media? I am trying to figure this out. My tank is 5' long and 3.5 ' wide. If I put several of those 4" pvc and then the matting on top from Grainger, will that be enough? Or do I still have to put the strapping media in it also. I want this to work! If one roll is 45' I would probably need 2 rolls? To clean the matt do you just rinse it? I know I am full of questions! !strut

Inquiring minds want to know! !rofl

[ozzyrockman]

Cinnamon, that’s my story and I'm sticking to it :grin: ! For the size of that tank you will need two rolls and possibly a third. However since the matting is 25" deep you could cut it down the center and problem solved. Last year all I needed to do with this style of matting was rinse it twice in six months with pond water and even then surprisingly really didn't need it.

As for the bird netting no other media was needed except the roll of matting. The drainpipe packed with bird netting and the egg create will raise the matting off the bottom far enough to allow solids to separate and a real nice bed of bacteria will grow inside these tubes. Giving you the ability to drain the heavy solids away and no other media is needed in this area especially if the inlet is aimed down and away from the matting.

I tried the lee pin bioballs in the bottom section and as far as I'm concerned they sucked in comparison and for the price where SOOOOOO not worth it. I also tried nylon screen and lava rock both proved to be bad ideas because they plugged too fast. Allen

Resources: bird netting $15.00 per roll @ lowes or HD and have more than enough left over to cover your fruit trees :grin:
PVC drain pipe free at some construction sites ask for the gf and see if they have scraps they are tossing. Clean, cut & pack um your set.

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy THANKS so much! Cleaning twice is 6 months rules! That Savio I am having to clean once a week right now. The pond guy told me once a month. YEA RIGHT! But when we get this other filter going also I don't think I will have to clean it but once a month maybe. I clean everything with pond water. I usualy do the cleaning when I add water. We had so much algae that I cleaned the savio twice last week! Right now it is not too bad but it is there. You can turn the camera on and see it.

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy I called Grainger. There is nothing in the filters ie linseed oil etc. Just polypropolene filter he said. The only catch it is WHOLESALE only. I can get around that. I have a friend who buys from them all the time in his work. I can call him tonight and get him to order it for me and get Heiko to go pick it up. He said it would take one day to get it here.

[ozzyrockman]

Pam, I have to commend you and Heiko on a well planned out design and please fell free to ask others about my off the wall ideas. From some of the diy plans I have seen on other boards there is not a lot of thought put into the design and for me it is MOST critical. Don't get me wrong I'm not lazy however when spring and summer hit it is not uncommen for me to be gone 14-16hrs a day and the last thing I want to do is clean a CRAP load out of a darn filter so I try to get it right before time runs out and I'm working all the time.

Keep in mind I did just add a mechanical and a second mate for Mr. Green because last year we only had 13 koi and all except 3 where under 8" the other three where about 14" so the load was pretty light on 4850g. This year I am going to challange the system and add 6 more 4-6" and 3 11-13" koi to this system putting it to the test and see what happens.

When I scaled a similar design down for our 750g qt using the bird netting and commercial floor scrubber pads with the 9 koi for two months at 65f I have only had to clean it once so far and that was simply because the commercial floor pads plug to fast no matter what media is below it in an uplow. Again lava rock, bio balls, strapping and finally bird netting and it lasted the longest w/o cleaning with a pretty heavy load in 750g. Allen

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy Heiko and I call it design on the fly! !rofl I don't know about well planned there. We just get a brainstorm and say what if.. will it work? And how the heck are we going to make it work. *:| With all the help of all of you here and things I read etc. We are learning. Experience is the greatest Teacher in the world!

I kind of like to have things layed out in my mind first though. I come up with these ideas and try to get Heiko to see it. He can't until I make it. Then he says Oh is that what you meant? !wow! Maybe I don't convey very well but I tell him all the time he has a hard time with perspective and seeing the finished product before it is complete. I design in my head and put it to the board!

[Rembrandt]

Thanks OZZY
Great pics!
That valve system reminds me of my "Tim Taylor" watering valve system I installed for Cinn many years ago. We also have flowerbeds all over the place and dragging hoses became a "drag". I ran underground water lines to all of the flowerbeds and built a "faucet tree" to operate them. We have it hidden by a large azalea bush on the south edge of the deck extension.

thanks for the inputs!
I have some old pieces of sewer pipe laying around. I may see if there will be room to lay a pattern inside with the 4". Wonder if they have a 1" to 4" fitting? I'll figure it out!

Always scheming!
Rembrandt

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy I called my friend and he was hesitant about ordering the matt for me :-| He suggested I call another company. They are going to call in the morning to see if they can get some of it. I told them Grainger wouldn't sell to me. If that doesn't work then Heiko said he would get it using his office information. I couldn't even sweet talk that guy today :lol:

As far as the PVC and netting, I was thinking of just lining the bottom with them. I should be able to get 3 if not 4 in there. I will take pics and let you know. Thanks for the tip about puting a rope around the matt also! Great idea. Maybe by the weekend it will be close to operational. Good weather ALL weekend long. I can hardly believe it is working on our side for ONCE! :smile:

Grainger said it would take a day to get the rolls in. So if Heiko orders it tomorrow it should be here by Friday. He has all his holes put in the ovc pipe he wants to run for the intake. That is inside the stock tank.

[ozzyrockman]

Heiko, you should see my 440 big block lawn mower similar to Tim's only diff is mines Mopar so it's faster :lol:. If that does not work out with Grainger I can see if they will except my cash account number for your order.

I have not tried pushing water thru the tubes so I don't know how well it would work by doing that. You may end up plugging the netting up too quickly or washing the bacteria bed out of the netting before it matures. Not real sure how it would work out.

If you don't mind me asking did you have a price range as to how much the foam would cost to fill your tank? One other thing before I forget do not lay the matting face up or down in the tank for some reason it does not work as well. Also if you would not mind letting me know what the texture of this matting is like I am interested in how close it is to the stuff I already have in my filters or if its the same. Thanks, Allen

[Rembrandt]

OZZY,

At our house, we speak PONTIAC.
MOPAR eh?

Pam is going to check on the material today and see what she can get it for.
I drilled a bunch of holes last night in the 4" pipe for the bio cylinders that will be stuffed with the netting. I liked that idea. Anyhow, we are trudging along here. As for pushing the water through the holes, I'm not sure how it will work either. Maybe Pam can post a pic of what we have now.

Rembrandt/Heiko
....always learning!

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy I am not pushing water through the tubes that have netting. He has deviced that 1.5 PVC to carry the water all around the bottom of the filter. That is how he has the water coming in. On the water coming into your filter. How is that run? Ozzy I tell you we OWE you big time on this one. I don't know how much that other is going to cost. I saw in your pics that you had that matt on it's side. So that is how I plan to lay it in there. You know by george this just may work !rofl

The guy from that other company is suppose to call at 10:30. I will let you know.

Guess what? IT IS RAINING!!! I have to do my rain go away dance! Send it to Washington!

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy will 3 of the perferated PVC tubes with netting work? Or should I line the entire bottom with them. The bottom is 53" and we have 2 cut so far that is pretty much the length of the stock tank. Also should I line the tank anything?

[ozzyrockman]

Pam, that should be plenty. I would not line the bottom it will make added work that you will not want to deal with when it comes to rinsing the bottom out when cleaning time comes around.

Heiko, thats a darn good looking hotrod and I'd take a BPO before fomoco anyday. Is that a 72 Lemans 455 HO? Below is my little put put that sits in the garage 12 months out of the year and has been driven a total of 372 miles in 6 years.

Oh ya I forgot you live in that state where it rains all the time! :lol: sorry couldn't resist.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/Codys1stcarshow.jpg

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy except lately right? Prime time to drive it now! Nice Mopar!

[Rembrandt]

Hey Ozzy,
Nice MOPAR.
Wish it was the 455 but she's not.
Believe it or not, it is actually a 350.
It is the LeMans Sport with the GTO trim and suspension.
Triple white. I am the 2nd owner. Bought it in '81. Haven't driven her in probably 7 years. Haven't cranked her in probably 5. She sits in a warehouse here in Beaumont. One day I'll bring her out of retirement.

Here is a pic of what I have so far.
Still need to get a gate valve.

Rembrandt

[Rembrandt]

K Ozzy,
just returned from ordering the mat. Got two rolls coming tomorrow.
We used to have an account years ago but it was deleated due to inactivity.
Got that taken care of now. ....film at 11:00.
Now to get that gate valve. :-?

Rembrandt

[Rembrandt]

Where to find a reasonably priced gate valve? :-|
I searched the major places here (Lowes, Southerlands, Parkers, Home Depot) and they didn't carry them. :mad:

... but we do have an RV/Truck/Van accessory place here that had what we were looking for. One of the workers at M&D Supply said he bet I could find what I needed there and sure enough, there it was.
Priced reasonably too. :grin:

Also met more Koi enthusiasts there! :-)

Rembrandt

[ozzyrockman]

Heiko, I'll leave the car thing alone for a little while. I hope you don't mind that I rented your photo and modified it bit to give you some input as to how I would consider building it. Pretty much just cutting and repositioning with the exception of the water inlet and personally I would have the water flowing down to keep as much of the heavy solids in the drain area. Positioning the pipe this way with the egg create over the top and you will not have to worry about breaking the inlet pipe work. Also consider placing one small piece in the center to support the egg create.

If you are tying it directly into the waterfall all you will need to do is use a toilet flange and sandwich the liner between the tank and the flange with 5/16" stainless or brass bolts and some Mopar :lol: black silicone sealer just to be on the safe side between the liner and the tank and between the liner and the flange. Allen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/ozzyrockman/DCP323890011.jpg

5 years humm :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Rembrandt]

Ozzy,

I like that Idea. We played with it some more last night and Pam is going to post a pic of what we came up with. Believe it or not, it's pretty close to what you did. I do like your layout though. It puts the drains in the middle of the "whatever you call it" which is where I think they need to be to really work. The beauty of PVC... you can do ANYTHING with that stuff!

I have a quick question: Is it best to have the tubes on the bottom or should they be raised an inch or so? I considered making "cradles" out of 4" pipe I have as a means of raising the pipes off the bottom a bit. I thought of this as a way to keep the tubes from damming when draining. We can cut the curves for the cradles on the band saw (if Pam will let me use it) Of course, your idea would take care of that automatically. !rofl

MOPAR black sealer? Well... old Pontiacs do leak a bit and nobody would really know if I crossed the line and tried some of your sealer! :lol:

Thanks for the ideas!

Rembrandt
...film at 11:00

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy here is the pic!

Total cost so far..

Stock Tank - $133.46
Bird netting - $12.00
Foam Pad - $12.00
Matt - $106.09
Plumbing fittings - $34.00
Gate valve - $18.00


Total $315.55

Not bad for a 180 gallon filter!

[Busy B]

That's not bad at all Cin...here they want $300 just for the tank!

[Cinnamon]

Busy B what do they do charge you an import TAX? Just because you are way up North you still the USA! Or is because they know they can get the $$ for it.

[Busy B]

They can get it, if they are the only supplier and because everything has to be shipped in..either by barge, train, or plane...the shipping charges are horrendous!

[Cinnamon]

I guess so. I watched a home remodeling show in Hawaii one time. The cost of lumber was unreal! And when you are the only one around you can get it. I know we have that here also!! We fell for it at first on the pond. I learned real quick!

[Busy B]

Little off topic, but one of my suppliers wanted 150 bucks for ONE box of plants to be shipped in..did not order from them! That was only the shipping!

[ozzyrockman]

Pretty darn nice filter that won't have to be cleaned four times a day. Personally I would just place the drain pipes with bird netting directly in the bottom to contain the solids for draining and be able to offer a large bed for good bacteria grow than place the egg create over the top this will help keep solids hold in is this area for cleaning.

Busy B, ya and shipping isn't getting any cheaper either :-? . Allen

PS Cinnamon, i'm still waiting for you to send the rain up to us. :lol:

[Rembrandt]

Thanks for the feedback Ozzy.

I now have a truck that is full with the two boxes of media. (I drive a Toyota Ext Cab). Stopped by a friend's house nearby and he had an old black round fiberglass tub with a 2" hole near the side near the top that he gave me. Will have to figure out how to make it fit in. He suggested putting a plant in it. Couldn't pass it up. The price was right too. It was free! :smile:
I am getting excited about the possibility of maybe being able to work outside this weekend without it raining.

Hey Cinn, please send some that rain to Ozzy. I think we can spare a little.

Rembrandt
Film at 11:00

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy I keep trying! We are suppose to get more rain late Sunday night, Monday and Tuesday. Maybe I can do a dance and make it back up! !rofl
It has been absolutely beautiful here today. So much I planted some Banana trees near the pond and have played out in my woodshop with the windows and doors open. Upper 70s and SUNNY! I am ready for Spring. I am almost finished with a Purple Martin House I am building.

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy Heiko wanted me to post this pic and tell you "he" had a brainstorm of an idea on the layout of the tubes! !rofl

[Cinnamon]

Here is a pic after I stuffed the DIY filter. Heiko has the drains in. I put 2 layers of egg crate.. well they didn't have "egg" crate at Wally World so I found the same stuff just a different shape to it. I used one box of the matte which is 45'. I also used about 16' out of the second box. I did have to cut the matte in half. Now we have to plumb the outspout at the top then carry it out to the pond and fix the drains and put the pipe in the ground.

[ozzyrockman]

The filter looks like it is coming along well. I wonder if the matt is the same as what I have, I may order a roll to see if it is simply a different color to ID sizes and styles at the factory. The mat I have measures only 15" and is green. How did you decide to do the return side out?

How's the weather holding for your projects? I heard it was raining in that state where it rains all the time :lol:. You know I forgot to tell you up hear in the dry !dude state of Washington we have lots of river rock maybe I can trade for some of that rain. I gotta tell ya Cinn you messed up on that rain dance thing and instead you made Mnt St Helens blow its lid !bonk

Allen

[Cinnamon]

Yea I heard Mt. St. Helens kind of popped it's cork! Did I do that? :unsure:
That filter is coming along. I cut the matt in half. I would up putting one entire roll which 45' x 2 = 90 plus another 18' off the second roll, cut in half again which would be 36'. So there is 126' of matt coiled up pretty tight in it. Heiko bought the black fittings to come out of the top to drain back in the pond. He worked some on the power Sunday. We hope to get a lot more done this weekend.

I posted the latest on the new waterfall also.

We had just a tiny bit of rain today. Not much at all thank goodness! No rain until late Sunday night and it is 20%. So we are in the sun and warmth this weekend. Last Saturday we detoured from working and went to Brett's Fish Farm. Find the post and pics of my new kids! :grin:

[Rembrandt]

Hey Ozzy!
Good to hear from you! :smile:
On the filtered water return, I have some black pipe and bought a bulkhead fitting I will install near the top and will probably line it up close to the inlet. The waste discharge will exit on the opposite side using a gate valve. I will have the entire unit sitting on cinder blocks with 2x6 cross supports to prevent it from sagging or shifting. I will tie into the 2x6 supports and make a box frame to which I will attach deckboards vertically and wall it in that way. I plan on putting 4x4 corners for supporting the roof. I have been toying with the idea of a cover for the unit by using a sheet of 3/8" plywood (treated? or standard?) to keep unwanted stuff from getting in it. I have been thinking of using eyebolts in the corners and through a series of pullies, stainless cable, and a spare tire hoist, making a jig that will allow the "lid" to be raised and lowered by simply cranking. We had thought about simply hinging the lid but I don't know how to do ANYTHING simple. :???: Another bonus of the lifting lid will be that we won't have to clear the lid every time we want to check on the inside. I am sure that we will have plants and "what-nots" on the lid too. After all, this is supposed to be disguised as a wishing well of sorts. hehe... I still remember a few things from mechanical engineering days! [-)

I saw an episode on Monster House where they used an electric winch to do something similar with a table top! Ahhh, power!

The roof will be a simple frame design covered with 3/8" plywood and cedar shake shingles. I think the project will look pretty good. At least it looks good on paper. We have been slowly assembling it in Pam's shop. When it gets to the point where it will be hard to move, I'll call my loyal friends to help me move it to its final resting point. You find out real quick who your friends are when ya build a KOI pond.

Thanks for all your input on this project!

Rembrandt

[ozzyrockman]

Rem, go with the electric 110v winch idea Tim would be proud :lol:. I would not use any type of pressure treated wood where there is a chance of it getting wet and leaching into the pond water. So use 3/8 cdx untreated, lay tar paper over the cdx then the shake and seal the shake before install. It is also a good idea to support that bad boy or you will take a chance of it splitting open at the bottom drains. To test this your gonna have to bring home the Lemans and park a tire on top of the frame work to test its strength. This will serve two fold you will have a piece of test equipment that badly wants to be ran :grin: . Allen

PS that wasn't the three stooges episode was it :grin: ?

[Cinnamon]

Ozzy I use to own a construction company for 10 yrs until I divorced it :lol: So I have tons of construction experience! I think Rems love it that I do !rofl He asked if I could put wood shingles on the roof. I said in a HEARTBEAT I definitely can put on Cedar Shakes! With Rem having the Engineering and me construction we are VERY DANGEROUS together :lol: !rofl Plus my VIVID imagination. When I finished my shop and had all my tools Rem said well you are only limited by your imagination now. I said BE CAREFUL HOW YOU SAY THAT!! He grinned. I think of something and I go out there and make it. Case in point. I had a Confederate Jasmine plant that I needed a trellis for. I make my own btw. I told Rem on Sat night I wanted a heart trellis. He looked at me funny. Sunday morning I went out there and got started. Rem was working outside and when he came in I was nailing it together! haha We put it up and he said, "Man that thing is huge!" I told I did nothing small. Neither one of us do as you can tell!

[Cinnamon]

The DIY filter is not far off from being operational. It is done but we have to finish the other stuff aka new waterfall before we can set it out. I am going to tear down my QT and get it off the deck. I will store the tank in one of the storage buildings and clean the liner. Now would it be beneficial to set that sponge filter in the bottom of the DIY 180 gallon filter since it has good bacteria in it already? It was just a thought. I wanted to get ya'll opinion before I did it.

[Wulff]

For what it's worth Im sold on the barrel design.
Ian and Terri designed one for me this time last year (spring 04). I have a fairly small garden pond that might with the addition of a small "veggie" pond push 2,000 gallons.

Like most novices and in particular one with young children my "store bought" pressurized filter was taxed to the limit with some comets and a handfull of "small koi".

One of the best things about the set-up is its simple to maintain and very user friendly, even for someone like myself whos just learning all the ins and outs of proper water managent. By mid summer, the water was crystal clear and I could pick out even the smallest of pea gravel 4 feet below the surface.

Same premise as already discussed by Ian and Terri so I'll let them handle "specifics" but just thought Id add a note that its a very effective system that saved my "pond" from an enevitable crash.

Pics wont do it justice but the barrels can be seen here both in the early parts of construction, and later in season when they were operational. Terri may have others from the installation or I think I can add a couple more later when Im at home.

http://www.cokpc.ca/albums/members/jbennett/index.htm

[Cinnamon]

I am sold on this design now for sure! We started it Saturday night. Every day the pond got clearer and clearer. On Sat it was bad. You could barely see the fish at the bottom so much algae. Not now! We even turned the camera on last night. It is incredible that the pond cleared up so fast. You can see pea gravel on the bottom of the pond now! You can even see the fish poop! :lol: So this deisgn I am SOLD on totally!!

[ozzyrockman]

Cinn, the question of the day is can you identify which one it came from? :lol: I hate to say it but the true test will be next year in July when those rascals of yours are eating 5 pounds of food a month, that will be the real test of how well that beast works. Have you looked into the level switch for the pump yet :wink: ? I would say that is one piece that is commonly overlooked however it is a very cheap investment especially when your gone from home for a while. Allen

[Mississauga Ponder]

I've not had that issue with the floor pads...?



are those floor pads the same as in this link?
http://www.bettymills.com/shop/product/view/Premiere%20Pads/PAD235.html

or are they similar to these?
http://www.bettymills.com/shop/product/view/Premiere%20Pads/PAD235.html

[Jackie Ramo]

[QUOTE=ozzyrockman] Another diy tip is that the commercial floor pads plug very easily and when used in an up flow will push right out the top so back to the matala. From Page 1

Mississauga, I think the pics you posted are scrubbies, what Allen was talking about are mats, like filter mats for force air furnaces and floor polishing mats. Definately frommy experience they do clog more easily and need to be replaced more often.

[ozzyrockman]

Thought you got rid of me did ya :phfft:
Well after a couple years in koi forumn ssabbatical I am ready to return if your willing to have me back :sorry: . To make a long story after fighting the IRS, moving back to Minnesota after 18 years of being away, career change-I gave up on my business and started back as a mechanic for a garbage company. Now I am running a landfill gas field and repairing 16 cylinder Cat 1200hp methane burning generators that where converted from diesel locomotive engines now they run off garbage. I never thought I could make a living off experience from a hobby but all the liner work, bio filters and pipe work I did really helped. Now the only difference is instead of water and koi in the liner I get to play with dirt and garbage in a liner and I'm getting paid for it :frisbee: HUDA THUNK IT!!! Oh ya and I have my reasons for resurrecting this thread from the dead but will explain later :jaw:

[tj]

Welcome back Allan, nice to see ya again :)

[ozzyrockman]

Thanks Teri, I am just starting to read thru some of the stuff I missed out on while I was MIA. Soon I need to get my little rascals out of the basement at least by my next spring yep pretty said they have been trapped in the basement since last fall :flamer: .

[Jackie Ramo]

Hey, welcome back, glad to see you. Sounds like you've had a bit of roller coaster ride but landed on your feet. Good for you. New job sounds most interesting. Fill us in when you get the time.